Jillian Chilingerian: It’s so nice to meet you.
Mark Bridges: Nice to meet you.
Jillian Chilingerian: I just want to say that Phantom Thread is one of my favorite films of all time, so I’m excited to connect with you Maestro.
Mark Bridges: Thank you.

Jillian Chilingerian: Bradley Cooper has been working on this film for six years at what point of the process did you come in to start your research of figuring out how Felicia and Lenny and so many of the other characters we’re going to look over decades?
Mark Bridges: Bradley and I were working together on Licorice Pizza and that summer, he was starting to do camera tests for the different stages of the makeup. We had worked together before on Silver Linings Playbook, so we knew each other, he asked me if I wanted to hop on and help him get some looks together to put with the different stages of the makeup. So that’s when I started doing the research looking at what stages of makeup we were going to do and then pulled some clothes and made some outfits that would make a complete look. I’d known of Bernstein as a child, but never certainly knew nothing about his life the way I do now. That was the summer of 2020 and we pushed back a year because of the pandemic. I think the first we did a test with Carey with some looks that summer. That was the first time that I’ve met Carey. And so I just, I never left.

Jillian Chilingerian: So much of this movie is visual storytelling and the clothes speak to that, especially with the relationship between Lenny and Felicia when they are in love and then later years when they are separated and seeing him put his clothes together. It’s very different from when they were together showing the evolution of their relationship based on what they’re wearing.
Mark Bridges: That’s nice of you to say that that’s the highest compliment that a costume designer can get that somehow you visually help the story. I’m always trying to do character development and figure out who these people are and how they present themselves to the world. I always try to make choices that create harmony in a scene, but still speak volumes about who they are, and how they present themselves to the world at any given point. And that often involves a lot of details. I’m planning how they’re going to meet the first time we see Felicia there’s, there’s a little sparkle in her costume and that may be the sparkle of the relationship happening, as they go on when we turn to color and she’s in that ice blue dress. It’s very much who this young girl that we first see has turned into Mrs. Maestro and certainly the woman of the house, an actress in her own right, well known as Mrs. Bernstein, as well as Felicia Montealegre. Cohen Bernstein is an actress and one and very early on was one of the foremost actresses and television early days of television. So we just see where she’s come to a very clean, spare, wealthy woman’s look, even though they were never that wealthy. Certainly, they ran with a crowd like that and they were by no means poor. And so you’re just always trying to signify those poet goalposts or those signposts of what’s happening. When they are not together his style goes a bit south. Having done research or spoken with Jamie Bernstein about her father’s clothes, and having access to the closet of Felicia and Lenny, you saw that without Felicia as his guiding hand, he was likely to veer off track and just get something that might be like a bright, shiny object, but a little too young for him, or when somebody buys things that are a little young for them, it gives you a look inside of how they feel and who they are. And how, of course, I’m dressing like this, the age is only a number, I may be 70, but my soul is 25, so I’m going to wear a jacket like a 25-year-old, and you sort of see that in the 80s with the last costume, It worked for us and said everything you needed to see in that scene.

Jillian Chilingerian: You have a lot of experience in period pieces. For this one, we’re going through multiple decades and how important is it for you, whether it was looking at photos of Felicia and Lenny or the time of the period of it to be that like the authenticity of how they would dress? Or is it led more by reading the page, or like seeing a lot of who they are, like, in real life to kind of dictate I think this is how Felicia would dress and this is the accessory? What guided you in this film, particularly for those period pieces?
Mark Bridges: I think it’s a combination of all of that you just mentioned. I was just looking at a film that I used as early the early years of the Bernstein I use for research on how audiences would look. It’s a film called Humoresque. And they’re in about the time that they met, there was a great interest in films and radio, of classical music. So I looked at that for how men wear their suits how men wear their ties, what’s what it means to be an audience at Carnegie Hall. So I use films a lot during the different periods to look at it and think, what makes this look 1946? What makes this what are the hallmarks of 1969, as opposed to 1971 or 1976? So I’m analyzing a period and then looking at the research of the Bernsteins and then thinking what’s interesting, but it’s also an evolving that what’s gonna give resonance to the scene. And so it’s a stew of all of those sources. And what’s an there is an element of what’s available to us what we’re able to create, to make what by decide or a design for that particular moment.

Jillian Chilingerian: Lenny’s energy is so kinetic just like how Bradley portrays him and it speaks to the movement of the clothing. Specifically, that cathedral how did you involve that idea of movement throughout Lenny’s time in the film?
Mark Bridges: Yeah, well, certainly the two times we see him conducting in the 50s and then the 70s, a lot of care was taken to make sure that that coat did what it was supposed to do. Lenny was very unique in his conducting style, so just make it so that it fits. And in the fittings, you make sure that he can move, and you let it happen. I think we only had one extra shirt for that for him. And even though it was sweat, perspiring, and everything, and then we made an extra cape for Carey’s dress, too, because I thought if he was coming in to give her a big hug and a kiss, she could get a little wet. There’s so much respect for the performances that were going on that we didn’t insert ourselves, you let them live that reality, and you are not constantly going in and fussing. There was a time when his conducting enthusiasm sort of pulled out a part of the vest or something like that, and we’re just gonna leave it, I think it’s real. I’m sure it would have happened when Lenny was that enthusiastic, so he started perfect, he does an incredibly athletic job of conducting this, and it is what it is, and that’s life. And that’s how we wanted to portray his life.

Jillian Chilingerian: Throughout the film, you can tell how the clothes are styled on the character. So it’s natural, it doesn’t feel like it’s so like you’re mentioning like, oh, wait, stop here let’s fix this and then keep going.
Mark Bridges: We don’t like to insert ourselves into what they’ve created this whole world on set, and a reality on set for them to exist in. And we’re outside of the set and I think you can see that in the film.

Jillian Chilingerian: We have this first half of the film and this gorgeous black-and-white sequence that transitions into color with that iconic, icy blue dress. For costume designers when they’re working in two different color palettes, especially black and white. What is it like testing different fabrics, textures, colors, what pops because you mentioned when we meet Felicia, it’s in black and white, but there’s such a sparkle to her from her eyes to her hair to the color of her dress and her silhouette.
Mark Bridges: I did a film called The Artist, which was in black and white. Some colors look different in color, but as soon as you make the pitch black and white, they all look the same. And sort of a high contrast, white shirt, dark suit. And it’s interesting trying to balance the two of them in a frame, there’s the famous interview that they do from their apartment and 50s. And then there’s a two shot of them and she’s very pale, and he’s in dark and light. And because of that the contrast and the graphics of it, they both hold weight, you’re not looking at one or the other. Um, so you think of those things, the graphics of it and certainly textures like the beading on Felicia’s dress, or the texture of Lenny’s jacket or his suits or his shirts. I tried to use as much texture as possible in the black and white. I think it makes it feel more accessible when you can almost touch those fabrics. So, yes, it’s about graphics, and it’s about texture, and it’s about leading the audience’s eye to where they should look and that’s another thing when I look at the old black and white films, you see how clever they were doing that. And so I tried to incorporate that in my choices for this work.

Jillian Chilingerian: Everything just really pops when the two of them are in the frame. It’s so old Hollywood and glamorous. It adds to their love story too.
Mark Bridges: I think there are elements of they were regular people too, but certainly turned into select jet setters, they were well-known people who had their day and presented themselves to the world in a certain way.

Jillian Chilingerian: Going back to the cathedral scene, you have the beautiful location and then you have the singers wearing these beautiful gowns, the orchestra, and then Felicia and Lenny. How was that crafting all those colors together, where you feel like you’re almost there, because it’s so vibrant, and everything complements each other?
Mark Bridges: Thank you, I’m very much a person of time and place. So we have that sort of 1976 thinking of men silhouettes, wider neckties, wider bow ties, if you’re wearing a tux, there were also classic shapes, so you’re making choices of shapes of gowns. Since it’s the second half of this decade of the 70s, it’s a little more drapey, it’s a little, it’s a very specific look in my mind. So we just gleaned from the States and England gowns for the audience at the Ely Cathedral. And then, of course, went for the black for all the singers. And then did white tie and tail for the London Symphony Orchestra, which is something that they’ve kind of gotten away from in the time since that was a huge operation. It was set up by my wardrobe supervisor. And you should have seen the dressing tents and the makeup inheritance and it was a huge, huge army, the circus had come to town and they did an amazing job over there. I couldn’t have been happier with how it was run. And I think I think finding the right number of clothes and gowns and things was the tougher part actually because there’s a finite amount of this specific second half of the 70s. And you didn’t want them to be too bubblegum they couldn’t be like pink prom dresses, they had to have a little gravity. It’s always a treasure hunt for me.

Jillian Chilingerian: So often we forget, that the costume designer is like doing everyone in these really big, elaborate, almost ensemble pieces. I’m always wondering, how they envision each person with the colors and I just really love the image from this scene that is stained into my mind. It’s just like that whole shot with how everyone is dressed in the cathedral.
Mark Bridges: Thank you. Yeah, and I had fun doing the audiences in the 40s whether it was like a Sunday afternoon concert at Carnegie Hall or the Broadway nighttime production, everyone paid incredible attention to those people in the audience’s hair and the makeup was amazing. I had a great crew doing all those fittings, and then we saw the group in 1971 at the premiere of the Kennedy Center. And that’s a whole different vibe but that was fun for me putting together each of those those scenes including culminating with the Ely cathedral.

Jillian Chilingerian: The silhouettes are my favorite part of fashion. When you you have Carey and Bradley playing these iconic characters it feels like what we mentioned their way of dressing is very specific to how Carey and Bradley are playing these real-life characters. What was the collaboration with finding that fit where it’s not distracting playing real people, it’s very natural and functional of how people would live.
Mark Bridges: Well, as they have a very well documented life, you’re able to see what they dress like at their country house, you see what they dress like when she was waiting for him backstage in the 50s, so you’re able to look at this, and then you’re able to apply it to when I’m making choices and putting my hands on real clothes. So there is an element of the history of fashion there. I go to my costume houses here in LA, and each one is divided into periods. I will go through and just something speaks to me, I need a dress for Felicia for the party at the Dakota. I’m thinking about, who she is where she shops, and what it means to have a really good dress. And then I’m looking for prototypes of that the prototype of the ice blue dress was something that I found that only is it has it’s made, and it’s nine pieces, and very few seams. It’s more about the art with the fabric and we had a prototype for that. It was white and it looked its age but was there a copy then the swatches were dispatched to try to find a fabric that does what the original fabric does kind of sculptural shape, which was very popular in the late ’60s. With one dress there, you’re giving it late 60s, you’re giving it her income bracket, you’re giving her Mrs. Maestro vibes and you’re also giving something that makes her stand out in that crowd of people, there’s so many layers to making choices and what we finally decide on. Carey and Bradley put in the time. They’re, they’re truly committed actors. So it’s a joy, it’s, it’s why I do this job. To work with actors where I try to do my fittings in the order of the script so that we’re looking at the arc of the people. I’ll bring a couple of choices here and we’ll go through them. Usually, we see the same thing on why it doesn’t work or why it works and let’s take it to the next step. It helps them develop their characters and helps them think about when they’re learning a scene or practicing a scene. So I feel proud of my contribution to whatever magic they’re doing in front of the camera.

Jillian Chilingerian: Watching the film, I interpreted it as it’s his recollection of their relationship and we’re always spotlighting on her and the little details that he remembers in these different moments of her life. The clothes speak to the love story and it’s never that weird thing we’re us as the audience never need a subtitle to say it’s 1970. It is a beautiful transgression across time through who is in the background or what our main characters are wearing.
Mark Bridges: She wears that dark navy dress with a cape at the premiere of Mass. She was very unhappy that night. She has very significant earrings and that was kind of a real thing. That night she wore a pair of earrings that Lenny had given her that she hated. She did not like they were Diamond and Sapphire and she was not happy with them at all. We got these Van Cleef earrings, they’re kind of significant, but in a way, they speak to the uncomfortableness of the whole scenario there. It’s part talking to Jamie Bernstein and it’s part what’s going to make a beautiful frame.

Jillian Chilingerian: There are two specific items of clothing, the white dress when he’s conducting and she’s in the shadow, and then the second one is the trenchcoat that he wears in the park when he’s meeting David Oppenheim.
Mark Bridges: We made that gown. There’s a photograph of Felicia backstage in that period and I love the shape of the skirt, so my incredible cutters created that design for me. There are two textures in black and white, a brocade and then the satin with the jewelry that Felicia was seen wearing again and again, in that period. His overcoat was a real vintage overcoat, very lightweight. It was taken from an image of Lenny walking to work to go to rehearse someplace. They took a picture of them near Carnegie Hall in the 50s with a bow tie, and I think it might have been in the script, that Bradley and Josh had been thinking of that image when they wrote that scene. So you try to be faithful, you try to make it seem real. In the black and white, David Oppenheim is very textural, his overcoat, his wife, and his baby. Everything else in the film in that scene is very textural because Lenny’s a little flat but different, the palest thing in the frame has a bow tie, but it remains interesting. But even though it’s not that textural, so you’re constantly trying to balance a frame and make it something fun to look at.

Jillian Chilingerian: When you mention that in that black and white. Were there any moments within the film, with the texture of trying to figure out where it doesn’t clash?
Mark Bridges: At the party where they meet and she ends up being pale, you’re just caught, again, constantly trying to balance and making decisions to have a balance. It’s all just in the strategy of each choice, or there’s an outfit that I love. So we need to make it with this kind of fabric to balance him. You’re just constantly playing chess, or you’re rearranging this little puzzle till it comes out to work.

Jillian Chilingerian: Well, thank you so much for this very in-depth conversation. I appreciate the time because I had so many questions especially when you’re dealing with such large sequences as the cathedral scene or the party scenes, I’m always thinking how are their minds working with all these details?
Mark Bridges: It’s fun. It’s hard to put it into words, but hopefully, you get a sense that it’s moving all the pieces to make one harmonious frame or seeing or something to think about it all separately and then as a whole. Very nice talking to you, thank you.

Jillian Chilingerian: Thank you so much and congratulations again on the film.
Mark Bridges: I’m glad you enjoyed it. Thank you so much. I enjoyed talking to you.

In the below featurette, Bradley Cooper, Co-Writer/Director/Actor/Producer, discusses the costume designs with Mark Bridges.

Maestro is currently in select theaters and streaming on Netflix.
You can read our review of Maestro here.