Since 1986, one man has been the President of Uganda. While the nation had high hopes for ninth President, Yoweri Museveni, his 36-year reign has turned into a dictatorship. Fighting for democracy, musician turned politician Bobi Wine emerged as a beacon of hope for real change in Uganda. Wine, as a musician, spoke to the corruption which plagues Ugandan politics and as a sharp critic of the regime, has found his music banned in his home country.  Wine became the first Independent elected to Ugandan Parliament before announcing his run for president in 2019. In the Oscar nominated documentary film, Bobi Wine: The People’s President, filmmakers Moses Bwayo and Christopher Sharp follow Wine as he embarks on his president campaign and the his incredible fight for a fair and free democracy in Uganda. Offscreen Central writer Morgan Roberts spoke with Bwayo and Sharp about their groundbreaking film. 

Morgan Roberts: Thank you both so much for taking this time to speak with me today. I just really first want to congratulate you on the film on the Oscar nomination. How does it feel to have the film recognized in this way? And have you both properly celebrated together?
Christopher Sharp: There’s a really good question. Thank you so much for having us on. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, when we Moses and I started out to make this film, we never thought for one minute that we would end up with an Oscar nomination, you know. You start to make these films because you want to shed some light on people and issues that you think are really important. The other thing about, you know, making documentaries, you never know, if you’ve really got a story. At the beginning, you start and you don’t know. We didn’t know if Bobi would make; it we didn’t know if he’d survive. We didn’t know if he’d give up. So there’s a lot of unknowns. But as we’ve progressed, and you know, the film, got into Venice, and it got into Telluride. It’s been amazing, because it’s felt that it’s shone more light on what’s going on in Uganda, and the brave struggle of Bobi and Barbie and those people around them. So it’s been, it’s been amazing. And obviously, you know, the nomination. I really I don’t know about Moses, Moses is extremely optimistic person, but I really didn’t think we’d get nominated. I was just so delighted, because it’s just another way of people seeing what’s going on.
Moses Bwayo: Yeah, it’s been humbling. It’s really been an honor. Like Christopher says, you know, when we set out to make the film, for us, we were just documenting what was happening in Uganda. We’re both born in Uganda. So we are connected to the country, deeply connected. But it’s been extremely humbling, you know; not so many times that films like these are recognized. We wanted it to happen, but it was a surprise. It was a big, good surprise. We’ve been so thrilled. It’s like a dream. It’s honestly, everything is just like a dream. Yesterday, we were at this luncheon, in a room with all of these great artists. I mean, they’re just like great crafts people. What they do is incredible. You know, we we met Steven Spielberg, and we met all these other guys. It’s been such a ride, you know? We are extremely humbled and really grateful to every support that has come to us. Our film, it’s not just about Uganda, it’s really about the people, about the struggle ,about democracy. It really highlights the fight for democracy and freedom. 

Morgan Roberts: Now, before I dive into some of the questions I have about Bobi and Uganda, I was wondering, how did you two first meet and decide: “We’re going to make a documentary film together?”
Christopher Sharp: So as Moses was saying, I grew up in Uganda. My father actually spent his whole life in Uganda. And I was a fan of Bobi’s music. Obviously, I knew quite a lot about the politics. I knew that Yoweri Museveni, the president who everyone had such great hopes for, turned into a dictator. So I very much knew what was going on. And I actually met Bobi and Barbie in Europe in 2017. And we chatted because we obviously I had this Ugandan connection and we chatted and Bobi just explained how he was transitioning from musician. He’d been very successful. He put himself through University. He’s got a nice house. He had this wonderful wife, these beautiful children. And he was just putting himself in this incredible perilous situation where he had just been elected as an independent member of parliament, and he was doing protest songs against the government. And after he left, I just couldn’t get him and Barbie out of my mind. I just kept thinking about them. So I called them up a couple of days later. And I said, “I want to come to Uganda and hang out with you and talk to you.” So I went out to Uganda and sat down with them and said, “You know, I’d really like to make a film.” I don’t think they knew quite what that meant. And then I met Moses, and we got on super well. We were following Bobi for five, six years and couple of years editing. But it just grew and grew. And I think, as we were doing the project, it just became increasingly apparent that this was a really important story. And as Moses alluded to, it’s not just an important story for Uganda, it’s an important story for democracy. Because the moment the institutions that are meant to protect the people are removed, it’s so tough to get them back. You know, Museveni now controls the Electoral Commission. He controls the judiciary, the police force, the armed forces. And it’s a struggle because everything goes through one man. So you need someone heroic to come along. And in Bobi and Barbie, Africa has two just the most incredible heroic people I’ve ever come across in my life. I kind of said quite often, but I think that since Mandela, I think Bobby is is probably the most important political figure to come out of Africa. He’s a true Democrat. And he’s fearless.

Morgan Roberts: Moses, for you, I know that you also were wearing the hat of a cinematographer. In addition to directing the film, what was it like working in those two realms as you’re bringing Bobi story to life?
Moses Bwayo: Yeah, we were incredibly fortunate, you know. Bobi and Barbie gave us this wonderful access. And also, you know, the political movement. We have tons and tons of footage, over 4000 hours thatChris sat through, and we have such incredible footage. They just didn’t stop us at any level. And that access grew over time. To the point that, I was only noticed when I wasn’t there. We were working together constantly. It’s been such a wonderful collaborative effort. Our editor Paul Carlin, a very intelligent guy as well. It’s been a wonderful collaborative effort.

Morgan Roberts: And you can see the collaboration, because one of the things that I was really struck by was the balance that you were able to have not just with understanding Bobi as a political figure, but as a musician, integrating his music into the film, and then also kind of looking at not just the singular person, but the global community that he’s fighting for. So what was it like having to balance all of those elements? And how were you all kind of able to collaborate to make those decisions on when you were going to cut to his music when you were going to kind of focus on Uganda and then, you know, refocus on Bobi?
Christopher Sharp: Yeah, I’m just, you know, with his music, Bobi uses his music to communicate to people. And he’s a storyteller himself. His music is banned in Uganda. So he’s not allowed to have concerts. He’s not allowed to play on the radio, but you can’t stop the music with social media blaring out all over the country. But if Bobi wants to communicate something, if he wants to communicate to the police force, that they are also under oppression. And, you know, or he wants to talk about corruption, he sings a song. So it seemed pretty obvious to us when we were editing that we needed to use the music and Bobi’s lyrics as part of the narration. So it was getting that balance. We were pretty determined to keep the film under two hours. It could have been really, really long. But we just sort of realized that you have to infer lots of things. Like, we inferred the violence. There was a lot more violence, but we thought we’d put enough violence into the film to show that there was a lot of violence. Then we witnessed a lot of vote rigging. The elections in Uganda are a sham; they’re complete sham. They’re just something they go through every five years to try and appease the West. And we alluded to that, but we had the evidence to show it. You’re asking your audience and you are recognizing that your audience are intelligent. And I think everyone got it, you know, all points without being particularly labored. So we managed to do the film’s one hour, fifty minutes, I think we managed to do quite a lot. And then central to the film is Bobi and Barbie, this love affair. They’re two people who are coming from very different backgrounds. They come from different tribes, which is kind of big deal in Uganda. Bobi obviously grew up in the ghetto, quite rough. His parents died when he was quite young so he was fending for himself. And then Barbie, her parents were medical. She came from a much more typical sort of stable environment. But they come together in this wonderful love affair, and they recognize something in each other. And Barbie sort of becomes Bobi’s moral compass. She’s the one who saying, “you’ve done well, now you have to give back.” And Bobi totally recognizes that. So it’s a beautiful story, I think, it’s a beautiful story on so many levels. 
Moses Bwayo: Also, you know, with the music, we really wanted to keep the film hopeful, and the story really hopeful. And, as you see, you know, there’s all these hurdles that they have to jump every now and then. So we we wanted the audience not only to walk away with this message of a repressive regime, but also the courage that the individuals that are leading it go through and also being inspired by the music really helps us to uplift the spirits. And, by the time you walk away from the film, you’ll want to do something.

Morgan Roberts: I think that it can be so tricky to be able to show the plight of what is the reality of what’s happening and to keep people hopeful that things will be able to change. And I think, you know, as we talk about Bobi and Barbie, one of the things that I was really struck by was how candid and honest and just willing to speak about their experiences. About both the good and challenging parts of their lives. I know that you both have talked about having a relationship with them before starting filming, but what was it like building that rapport to be able to get such honest interviews with them?
Christopher Sharp: Yeah, I mean, you know, Moses will talk about this. But I think the nature of Bobi and Barbie is they’re incredibly welcoming people. And so they are very welcoming to people. So when you say you want to make a film about them, and they like you, and you get on with them, they’re going to be very welcoming. But obviously, they’re taking a huge risk, because they’re allowing you into their lives. And they’re exposing themselves to a lot of stuff which could be used to hurt them by the regime. So what happened was, they start, we started filming, and we originally did two anchor interviews, which we actually use at the beginning of the film. And then we just started following them. And as we spent more and more time with them, they realized that we were safe. And we were going to look after them. And we always said to them right from the beginning is we’re not going to allow you to have editorial choices in this film. But at the same time, we’re not going to put in anything which damages those around you. When we started I always thought, “well, okay, so he’s this musician, and he’s going to be this colorful character, there’s going to be all sorts of things about him we’ll discover. “ We ended up with 4000 hours of footage. And if I was to give someone who wanted to make a derogatory film on Bobi and Barbie, I gave him the footage and said, “cut something derogatory,” you couldn’t do it. What you see on the screen is the people they really are. But Moses was often on the front line with them. And he ended up being locked in the house during the elections with them.
Moses Bwayo: Yeah, that access really grew over time. And over time, you know, we gained more and more trust. Also around them, there were people being compromised every now and then by the regime. So, around them it’s like, I mean, you have to be very honest. They are just open books themselves. What you see is what you get. They’re great people. But over time, as the danger grew around them more and more, we got more access. In the very beginning, it was mainly the political things. But then attacks started happening on their children, on them, on those close to them, that attempted assassination on Bobi. In fact, by the end of filming, there had been like, seven attempted assassinations in his life. But, you know, over time, the access grew. And we were, you know, we were let in even more to the point that, you know, the camera kind of became like a protection to them. Because when we were around, yes, the police would still be brutal, but not to the same degree as if the cameras were not there.

Morgan Roberts: In our final minutes together, I do just want to say, your film kind of exemplifies what the power of cinema can be, which is to help people learn about others in the world that they might not have been exposed to. And so as you’ve been receiving recognition for the film, as you’ve been talking with audiences about to film, what has been something that has struck you most about someone’s reaction to Bobi, Barbie, and the story of Uganda?
Moses Bwayo: I think the most striking thing is what, of course, when people say they didn’t know. We know Museveni for the longest time, the dictatorship in power, they’ve had lobbyists around the world who help sanitize the image. But, you know, the point that not so many people know about this story it’s quite surprising. But again, we are glad that we were able to make the film and inform audiences around the world. Yeah, we hope that it will be easy to bring the much needed change back home.

Morgan Roberts: Thank you both so much for taking this time to speak with me today. And again, congratulations on the film, and the Oscar nomination.

Bobi Wine: The People’s President is currently streaming on Disney+.