Behind the Haystacks is Greece’s Best International Feature Film contender at the 96th Academy Awards. It’s a film about a family living at Lake Dorian at Greece’s northern border during the refugee crisis. The story is told from three different perspectives, with a tragic incident and family anchoring each. Its a contempoary drama is heavy on themes of society and how the main characters are affected by it. We recently talked about the movie with writer and director Asimina Proedrou. 

Ayla Ruby: I’d love if you could kind of talk about the film and kind of the story of the film.
Asimina Proedrou: So it’s a story, it’s a contemporary drama with some thriller elements. It takes place in 2015 on the border between Greece and North Macedonia. And there’s a lake there, it’s Dorian Lake. It’s called Dorian Lake. And it’s exactly on the border at that lake, which means one part belongs to Greece and the other part belongs to North Macedonia. And as I said, it takes place in 2015 during the refugee crisis where the refugees were trapped on the north border of Greece, because Germany, Hungary, and many other European countries had closed their Western borders. So all these people were trapped in very difficult circumstances.

Ayla Ruby: And you kind of hear that through the film, right? There’s these news broadcasts that kind of play through talking about how the borders are all closed?
Asimina Proedrou: Exactly, yes. But it’s not a refugee drama, it’s a family drama. So in the center of the story, there is a family, a father, a mother, and a daughter. And we see the story through three different perspectives, point of view, where we see the father, they all live in a village near Dorian Lake on the border. So yeah, the father is a fisherman and farmer. He’s afraid that he will go to jail for fraud, for some fraud he did many years ago. He’s afraid that he will go to jail. And he starts smuggling migrants through the lake. And well, a terrible accident happens and so on. He’s trapped in the local mafia and so on. And then we see the story through the eyes of his wife, who is devoted, is the word, she’s devoted to the priest, and she believes in God. And she tries to find, to understand the real word of God. So we see this, struggling through this, and at some point she finds out other things about her husband and what’s going on. And then there is a story of the point of view of the daughter. Actually, this is a coming-of-age story. There is this girl who wants to be a pop singer, and she wants to determine her life within an oppressive environment. And yeah, that’s roughly the story. I will not tell you anything about the end. No spoilers.

Ayla Ruby: I know, no spoilers, but I have so many questions.
Asimina Proedrou: And actually, it’s a story about how everyday people become cogs in a corrupt system. So that’s the theme of the film. It’s about this, about how society oppresses us and, I don’t know, how it affects our relationships and our personality, and how fragile we are in this society.

Ayla Ruby: So this is quite a big story and it’s quite significant. Can you talk about your journey to this film and what drew you to wanting to tell this story? And I have more questions about going deeper into it, but what appealed to you? How did you get the kernel of the idea? Why this story?
Asimina Proedrou: Okay, so I started from the theme because it is related to my personal fears about society, to my personal philosophical, political, and all these fears about how society works and, I mean, we can be very nice people, and how can we be cruel sometimes? And how the struggle for survival can make us people that we wouldn’t, and make moral choices which are kind of bad, I would say. So these are the thoughts I had. So I decided to make a film to explore all this, and actually, I didn’t want to give any answers. So actually, what I was doing, I was raising questions, and then more questions, and deeper questions. But of course, no answers there. So I started from there. And at some point, I was doing my master’s degree in filmmaking. And actually, because I was working in a totally different field, I was working, so I did a master’s degree, a distance learning program in the UK, and I went to London. I was going to London for very short periods of time. And then I had a friend who was doing her PhD, and she talked to me without knowing that I will be, my ideas about the film, but I don’t know, we had a totally different conversation. But she said, “Have you been to Dorian Lake?” I said, “No, no, no.” But she then told me that it has a really wild beauty, that there are wild and dead trees in the lake, and it’s on the border. And then I Google it. And then I said, without even going there, before going there, I said, “Okay, we’ll make the film there.” Because I was looking for a certain, specific location, which was far away from Athens. It was a closed society and so on. So I said I will go there. And it was in 2015, and the first night I stayed at the hotel to start doing research, that same night, 50 refugees were Syrian and so on. They were housed in the same hotel. And the next morning, we saw them and we started discussing with them, and they were talking about their experience and everything. So I decided to put the refugee crisis in the story, but from the point of view of the smugglers, the point of view of the locals, there are other people protecting them and helping them, and there are other people who were taking advantage of them in many ways. So I put that in my story. But again, it is a family drama. In the center, there is this family story and their relationships.

Ayla Ruby: Now, so you talked a little bit about your own background before, but you came from quite a different background. You have this brilliant science background, right, a science and mining background, and now filmmaking. How do they mesh together? Are there parallels? How does that work?
Asimina Proedrou: Well, my first degree, actually, I have a BA and a Master of Science in Finance, and Economics and Finance. Yeah, so that’s my background. And I started working in the finance department, and then the Sales and Marketing Department of a big mining company, international company. And I worked there for 15 years because I had to work. And anyway, but my dream was always to become a filmmaker. I mean, I decided, well, I cannot say decided because I was 10. But anyway, I started saying that I wanted to be a filmmaker when I was 10 after watching the film Cinema Paradiso by Tornatore. And I was like, I don’t know if you know the film, but it’s an Italian film. And well, it’s a huge discussion, but it’s about cinema. It’s about cinema, it’s about the world, I was introduced in the world of cinema, yes, through that film. And then I started saying that I want to be a filmmaker and so on. Anyway, it was always my dream to become a filmmaker. So when I started working, I had some kind of income, then I managed to study cinema together with my daily job and so on. But I quit two years ago. I got sabbatical to make the film because I couldn’t have a daily job. And So I got a sabbatical to make the film. And then when I had to go back, because I didn’t get a sabbatical for 1,000 years, I had to go back. They told me, you have to come back, and said, “I’m in the middle of editing,” and said, “Yeah, but you have to come back. I mean, who cares about you? “

Ayla Ruby: It’s worked out.
Asimina Proedrou: And then I quit because I couldn’t go back. I had to take that risk, because if I went back, I wouldn’t be able to make a film again. There is some point that you have to make a decision. So yeah.

Ayla Ruby: So you talked about Dorian Lake. I’d love to know a little bit, and I’m going to get back to the story a little bit too. I’d love to know about filming there, what that was like. I think I read it was like 33 days. If you could talk about just how that all worked, and how it worked with getting approval from folks around the area, if you can talk about that process.
Asimina Proedrou: I can tell you that Dorian Lake was the easiest part because we didn’t shoot the whole film in Dorian Lake. It was quite expensive to do that. So we shot 12 days in Dorian Lake, both sides, the Greek side and the North Macedonian side, and the rest of the film somewhere near Athens. I mean, up to like 50 kilometers away from Athens, and something like that. So I can say, yeah, Dorian Lake was the easiest part because we shot during the second lockdown. And it was very hard, because we needed permissions for everything. We needed permissions to, imagine that, that shops were closed, and we had to prepare the whole production. And imagine how difficult it is for some departments like, say the costume departments, or our direction to prepare the whole film this way. And it was very difficult for us to get permissions for locations because everybody was scared, and most of all, the public, the buildings. And I mean, hospitals and so on, no, it was a nightmare. So Dorian Lake was the easiest part because people are excited when they have a film. It’s not in their everyday. Yeah, so they’re excited and they want to help more. So we could find much more solutions there, at this area. And considering that we did the whole thing during the lockdown, but it was difficult because the border was closed. The border you see in the film is closed due to COVID. So it was difficult to travel to North Macedonia, everything was difficult. But we were so excited, and I had a really great artistic team, and it was amazing. I mean, we had those difficulties, but the excitement of the shooting and the excitement of the creation was amazing. And so, it was difficult, but great at the same time.

Ayla Ruby: So in addition to your team, you also have this really talented cast. You have some veterans of TV and Greek cinema, but you also have your Anastasia, Evgenia Lavda. This was, I think, her first role, right? And can you talk about that, how you found her and all of that?
Asimina Proedrou: My casting directors, the organized auditions. And at the first part of the auditions, we just had an interview, and I was just discussing with the girls. And when I saw her, the moment I saw her, I said, “Okay, this is Anastasia.” The moment I saw her, I don’t know, there is something with the eyes, there is something, when you feel that this is the right person, and maybe it’s like an instinct. I felt that this is Anastasia because the way she looked at us, and the way she spoke and everything, I didn’t know anything about her. And then I told my casting directors, and they said, “She’s the less experienced girl.” I mean, not the less, from what you saw. I mean, “She hasn’t done anything,” and I said, “I don’t care. I will not tell her now that she got the role, but I will tell her that we will work in the next three months. And then I will tell you.” And this was during the first lockdown. The Beginning of ’20. Exactly after, this happened exactly… I think the auditions were before the lockdown, and then we were rehearsing. And we were rehearsing during, no, through Zoom. But she tried so much, and she made an impressive progress. And she trusted our relationship and everything. And she was trying and trying to, she was amazing. I’m very happy I found her. I’m very happy.

Ayla Ruby: Okay. And her father in the film, and her mother, Maria, can you talk about how you brought them on?
Asimina Proedrou: Both of them have been in many shows. So I don’t know. And okay, to be honest, I don’t have time to watch TV. So I don’t know which show you mean. But both of them in many shows. And Maria, Eleni Ouzounidou, the actress, she’s very experienced and very well known in theater. Anyway, I chose both of them. I chose Maria. When I saw Maria in the theater before becoming famous, more than 15 years ago, I had her in my mind. And I said, “At some point I will work with her.” And I started writing her part having her in my mind.

Ayla Ruby: That must be very gratifying. That must be a wonderful thing to have written the part and then be able to 
Asimina Proedrou: Yes, exactly. And then Stathis Stamoulakatos, I was trying to find, I mean, this has to do with every choice I made in casting. I really wanted very authentic faces. And I think that the physique in this kind of films is really, really important. Because if you see him on screen, and you’re not persuaded that he’s this person, no matter if he’s the best actor in the world, it wouldn’t work. So for starters, I thought a lot about many people, I had him in mind, but up to then, he was doing different things. And he didn’t have, in the films, he had already worked this like this. Yeah, he’s aggressive, but he didn’t have this kind part. I hadn’t seen this sensitive part. So what I did is I went to see him in the theater, he was playing in two plays at the moment. And I saw some parts, and then I said, “Okay. He has that, and I have to find a way to bring it,” how do you say that, “To take it from him.” So that’s what happened. And everybody, I mean, the film critics say that, “Oh, the first time we see him having this other parts of,” and yes, I’m very happy I made those choices. But for all of them, not only for those three main characters, for all of them.

Ayla Ruby: So they’re the main characters and everyone else as well, but this film is kind of like you said, in three perspectives. Right? And there are these titles that kind of divided it up. Can you talk about the decision to use three different points of view, and how you think that shows the story? How does that all form along the narrative?
Asimina Proedrou: Okay. So I made this decision, first of all, because I wanted to give the audience the opportunity to see a character, superficially at the beginning, and then dive into his motivations and curious soul, and later into the chapter. So this is what I wanted to succeed. Because this changes the way you watch the film and you follow the characters. If you see his motivation from the very beginning, it’s a different experience. When you see, for example, a different Anastasia instead of your story, and then you watch her part, it’s a different experience. It’s a different process on how… You know what I mean? You understand what I’m talking about?

Ayla Ruby: Yeah. And with her, and specifically, she’s very much revealed compared to her father’s perspective versus her own perspective. It’s dramatically different.
Asimina Proedrou: Yes. So if we think that deeper, this also so has to do with, us human beings, how we found out the truth. So this choice is related to this, “Can we find the truth? Is this one truth?” I wanted to, let’s say, play thematically with this also. And yes, I made this choice because of that, but it also helped in another layer that of the thriller elements to see, “Oh, what happened? Did this happen? Oh.” And then to have questions, to raise dramatic questions, and then have payoffs. But the first thought when I made this decision was due to how I wanted to explore the characters and have the audience explore them with me.

Ayla Ruby: So the title, can you talk about how you came to the title, how that kind of evolved, if it did at all? And can you talk about the meaning of the title without spoilers?
Asimina Proedrou: Yes. Well, the word Behind implies that something is hidden behind, and the Haystacks is related to, it’s an agricultural village and they cultivate, cultivate is the word, sorry, hays and all these things. And so, the same time, okay, it is too much after that. But at the same time, haystacks are kind of trapped because they are wrapped, this kind of thing. Of course, nobody will think about it. But mostly, it has to do with something’s hidden behind something. So lies, all these things.

Ayla Ruby: And I know we’re getting close to time. So I guess my final question will be, is there a message overall in the film, or is there something you want to leave folks with after they have watched it? Is there an enduring thing you want to have be the film’s legacy?
Asimina Proedrou: Well, actually, of course there is a theme in the film. But I don’t want me to discuss about messages, because from my experience, the film was in Greece, it was released for mean eight months, and during a lot of Q&As. And from my experience, every person that watches the film makes a slightly different interpretation that, for him, it means something else. So I don’t want to give a message. I told you before about the theme. So this is what I wanted to do, and I hope, it’s a dark story. It was called, from the critics, Greek Contemporary Drama. So it’s a hard film. Because I wanted to leave some kind of hope, I hope that the audiences also feels that there is some kind of hope. That’s the only thing I can… I think that he doesn’t like… Okay, it raises questions about society, but at the same time, he can see the beauty in the human relationship, in choices, in people’s choices, that there is somehow kind of hope.

Ayla Ruby: Oh. Well, I think that’s a great note to end on for all of us. And thank you so much for talking. It was lovely meeting you.
Asimina Proedrou: Thank you so much. Thank you.